Dangerous Fantasies: Talking Israel, Palestine and Myth
Colleagues in counter-extremism, Elliot Friedland (Jew) and Shireen Qudosi (Muslim), in a raw conversation covering the heart of the rage over the Israel-Hamas war. Plus reader questions.
Editor’s Note: The following is a conversation with my Jewish friend and colleague Elliot Friedland. Elliot is an Oxford graduate and a researcher on extremism, along with the founder of Toke for Tolerance — the world’s first cannabis-based interfaith festival. I’ve known Elliot for 8 years, half of which was spent working with him in some capacity either as an ally in the counter-Islamist circuit, where Elliot took the initiative to highlight the range of Muslim voices. Later, Elliot and I worked closely for almost a year going piece-by-piece to train and create a preventing violent extremism (PVE) training program under Clarion Project (a right-wing Jewish organization we both worked for at the time). Elliot for training me on a range of extremist ideologies using art, literature, and music to communicate the emotion behind extremist movements. The following is an uncut, informal conversation between two friends who at this time do not see eye-to-eye on the Israel-Hamas war. We share this for two reasons:
An example of the possible conversation between opposing sides, delving into emotions of the hour without weaponizing them against each other.
Radically honest conversations are possible. We hope we can serve as one example of that.
Piercing the Iron Dome of Our Illusions
It’s been over two months since the Hamas October 7th attack that sparked unpressed the pause button on a cyclical problem between Israel and Palestine vis-a-vis Hamas. As many of us have noticed, this war feels different. This war, this time, has pulled us all in. Maybe it’s because of the turmoil of the last few years that everyone has faced on multiple fronts. I know that with the political eruptions since the Donald Trump presidency, the eruptions of ideological clashes on our streets, natural disasters, inflation, and the war in Ukraine we’ve psychologically shifted. No one of those altering events happened in a silo; they’ve been converging and crashing like a storm at sea.
So yeah, this time it’s different. Many of you have severed friendships and relationships over the stance people are taking on the Israeli response to Hamas vis-a-vis the Palestinian people. People have quit jobs. People have gotten fired. The October 7th Hamas attack didn’t just pierce Israel’s Iron Dome; it pierced into our consciousness as a world community — no matter what side you are on. The sequence of events has changed us.
Over the next two hours, Elliot and I discuss
How a flip got switched that has people rallying to the flag.
The Jewish mindset of “they’re going to hate us anyway” that speaks to a history of disdain and criticism.
The Muslim dawning realization that many people don’t see as anything other than savages.
The psychology of Amalek, old stories used to justify the war.
How the scripts we’re running play into each other’s fears.
The challenge of a cease-fire.
Elliot answers reader questions, including:
An award-winning British poet asks; “How do you imagine the future (say 5 years from now, 10, 100?)”
A global non-profit leader on progressive Islam who has created satellite chapters of Muslim progressivism all over the world, asks: Since 9-11 there have been ample studies on how to eradicate extremism/radicalism and it has been scientifically proven that killing innocent civilians is not the way to go about it. What Israel is doing is the dumbest strategy. I'm assuming his position against cease-fire is because he wants to eradicate extremism. Question: what scientific study is he basing his position on?
A scholar of myth and sport, asks: If for every Palestinian child killed, Israel creates at least 3 more “terrorists”, then hypothetically speaking Israel has already created approximately 15,000 more “terrorists”, more people who hate the state of Israel and want justice and revenge for their people. Given that is Israel safer today than it was on October 6th?
A Muslim researcher on history and civilization, asks: “How would continuous bombardment and civilian casualties defeat terrorism? Particularly if the grievances driving it won’t be addressed”
My question: Ask him if he sees his faith as justifying Zionist supremacy or if he sees a path to a transcendent faith that unites all the Abrahamic traditions and their insights. Two sides of tribalism: community vs self … and the shadow side or the ugly underbelly which is a pattern of othering people outside the tribal identity, falling into an us vs. them gridlock.
A Twitter follower asks, “whether teaching children from birth they enjoy a special, elevated status in the eyes of God, is a level of racist supremacy higher than Hitler's master race ideology.”
How do you respond to statements like this: “Flatten everything. Spare no school, no children's hospital, no old-age home. Delete their entire gene pool off the face of the earth.” The case for genocide:
A writer asks you to respond to this statement: “Look at who is growing the olive trees, and who is burning them — that will tell you everything you need to know”
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